Preachers Learning from Longtime Listeners

This past month I had the great joy of going to West Texas to see my family for a week. It was a delightful trip which allowed me to spend some significant time with my Mother and Father, who I do not see nearly often enough. I also spent some time with their collection of amazing friends and family of choice - folks who play, eat, worship, travel together, and look out for each other since many of them do not have children who live in the local area.

One of the fun parts of the trip was doing some teaching for my Mom (Dad did not ask soon enough). I taught her Sunday school class and her Women's Bible Study group. The Sunday school class was part of their lives when my son, Shelby, was adopted from Russia. And when we came home with him, they threw a "Papaw Finally Has a Grandson Baby Shower” (he had 3 daughters and 4 granddaughters at that point). Up until a few years ago, my son still used the red Radio Flyer wagon to play with and to haul things around the yard. It was literally used until the wheels fell off.

The Women's Bible Study group that my Mom teaches has been meeting weekly to study together for 43 years (my Mom is the youngest one in the group). One of the original members was present for that lesson on Tuesday and she remembered Shelby running around the house when we were in Texas visiting some 13 or 14 years ago. It was all fun and I got to relive some great memories.

But one of the things I wanted to do while I was there was to talk about the task of preaching and the lessons we can learn from listeners. In the SS class, the average age is about 75. These folks have been listening to sermons for decades. Like many of us, they have heard a variety of preachers, seen several different preaching styles, and had many varying reactions to those preaching moments -- some good and some not so good. So after doing my preaching "spiel" I asked them this question:

"If you could tell new or practicing preachers one thing about preaching from a listener’s perspective, what would it be?"

I got some great answers that I want to share with you. These are the words of wisdom from folks who listen.

First, “don't talk down to us.” Just because you went to seminary does not mean you know everything. We read and study, too. Don't assume we are not as smart as you are.

Second, “use good grammar.” You did go to seminary so you should be able to speak properly. If you are using some kind of notes - make sure they are grammatically correct. If not, practice your sermon with good grammar.

Third, “if you are going to use humor - make sure it’s appropriate.” Don't make fun of people or use off color jokes. And don't tell "funny" stories if they are not appropriate to your context or very appropriate to the sermon.

Fourth, “tell us stories.” We remember them better - especially if they are tied to the text and help us connect better to God, the world, and to each other. If your story teaches us a lesson and is engaging, we will remember it even more.

Fifth, “bring us good news.” There is so much bad news right now and we need a word of grace and hope. We need to hear about love and what's possible. We need to be challenged and engaged, too. But don't be negative or judgmental every week.

Lastly, “know that we want you to do well.” We want to listen and take a lesson, image, story, phrase, etc. with us when we leave. Help us get that from your message.

Listening to these listeners was fun and exciting. Learning from them is something we can all gain much from. Are you listening to your listeners?

The General Conference Post That Would Not Come …

I have tried for two weeks to write about the recent General Conference of The United Methodist Church.  I started to write in the weeks leading up to the conference about my hopes and dreams for our church, for our shared ministry, and for our celebration of and praise of a mighty and compassionate God.  I wrote and erased so many posts that I gave up.  My dreams were too big and my wishes too bold.  I dared not write them down.  Every time I did it scared me too much to post them.

In the first week of the General Conference I tried again as I saw amazingly blessed worship and an international church come together in praise of God.  I was stunned by the visioning and hope many delegates came with.  And I relished the stories they told about church growth, vital ministry, and stunning outreach.  It moved my heart and soul.  Then holy conferencing on the issue of sexuality sent many into a tailspin as some GLBT folks were bullied, intimidated and called names during a time when real conversations were supposed to be happening.  And I sat as no words would come.

I tried again after a good friend, Mark Miller, was silenced on the floor of the conference when he tried to speak about the bullying.  He was allowed to speak about some of the pain and the bishop prayed but he was still silenced.  I stood with Mark in the middle of my living room.  My ranting words were good for me to let loose but too much to share with others.  I wept for my church.  And no post came.

But I found myself once again attempting to write after only 56% of my church’s delegates voted that God’s love is available to all persons.  Why only 56%?  Because they thought it was a slippery slope to accepting persons they believe are incompatible with Christian teachings. (“They” will continue to say it is the practice of homosexuality that is incompatible but in truth they are condemning the very being of the GLBT members of our denomination).  That post was deleted as well.

I saw some hope in the legislative committee work over the weekend session and when a promised amendment to be presented on the floor was trying at the very least to get the church to acknowledge we are not all in agreement with the United Methodist stance on homosexuality.  I had some renewed hope and a sense of reserved joy.  That was dashed when some of the delegates instead spoke of bestiality and stoning of GLBT folks in the UMC from the floor.  The petition failed – as it has before.  That post never even made it onto the computer screen.

I tried to write after GLBT advocates entered the bar of the conference to witness to their own and others’ exclusion and to attempt to keep any more harm from happening on the floor of the conference.  But my tears blurred the screen and I could not find the words.

I once again made a valiant effort after the plan to restructure our church and work together for a renewed future for our denomination failed in committee, was resurrected and remade into PlanUMC, was adopted on the floor, and then was ruled unconstitutional by the Judicial Council.  We were back to square one with no plan and little time until the end of the conference.  But Bishop Goodpaster reminded us we still have a structure in the 2008 Book of Discipline and he said it better than I could.

So Sunday morning I got up and went to my UMC/UCC federated congregation in Chestnut Hill, PA.  It is a reconciling, affirming, anti-racist, environmentally active, advocacy-centered congregation that worships like no other church I have ever been part of.  I realized once again that the theology of my church – The United Methodist Church – is one of grace and love.  And it is lived out in this church in amazingly vivid ways.

A feast at my wonderful church.

But I am angry and hurt.  I was born into the UMC – I am a cradle Methodist.  My father is a UM pastor and I have a Methodist pastor in every generation back several generations.  I have an ancestor who was ordained by Francis Asbury.  I have lived and bled Wesleyan theology since birth.  But I am disappointed and angry.  And I am unsure what comes next for my church … and that makes me sadder than I have been in a very long time.

In the meantime I will continue to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ as passionately as I can.  I will continue to share my faith with others and bring the gospel to those who have not heard it before or who have had a bad experience with the church previously.  I will continue to advocate for full inclusion of all persons.  I will continue to teach my students to love the church – but to love their passion for transforming lives more.  I will continue to prepare candidates for ministry in the UMC by teaching them the history, doctrine and polity of our church.  I will continue to work around the corner and around the world to bring about an end to gun violence, racism, sexism, domestic violence, poverty, homophobia, inequality and other injustices.  I will continue to hope and work for a church that lives the gospel – fully and completely.

And I will continue to pray for my church, for all who are hurt and are impacted by the decisions of the last few weeks at General Conference – on all sides of these issues.  And I ask you to please pray for our church, for all who hurt, and for all who are impacted by these decisions.

My Church Needs to Get a Little "Pissed Off"*

Next week The United Methodist Church's General Conference will meet in Tampa, Florida.  This is a pivotal time for our denomination.  We are gathering as a global church to determine a number of issues, including a restructuring plan, guaranteed appointments for clergy who are Elders in our church, issues around homosexuality, financing of our shared ministry, the structure of our general agencies, and how we will move as a denomination into the 21st century.

There has been a lot of lead-up to this global gathering.  Organizing bodies have planned worship, arranged for space, processed petitions, and coordinated meeting schedules.  Bishops have prayed and discussed upcoming legislation.  Groups have petitioned the body about numerous issues important to them.  Annual Conferences and individuals have weighed in on the pluses and minuses of the different proposals.  Advocacy groups have met, discussed and planned strategy to deal with their concerns about the proposals.  Facebook groups have debated the issues on every conceivable level. Blogs and articles have been written, disseminated and discussed.  And this does not even begin to cover all of the preparation for this gathering.

But despite all of this - we will more than likely continue to disagree on a number of the core issues coming before our governing body.  We are a church that have members around the globe and who would be found up and down the political and social issue spectrum.  We are younger and older persons as members.  We come from developing nations and developed nations.  We come from mega churches, rural churches, , suburban churches, village churches, tiny house communities, new church starts, declining churches, growing churches, multi-cultural churches, staff-led and single pastor led congregations, and much more.  Our churches are led by Elders, Deacons, Local Pastors, Lay Leaders, and other leaders both trained and volunteer. We are as diverse as a global group can be.

But we are also similar.  We share a Wesleyan heritage of social justice ministry.  We have a common theological framework of grace - prevenient, justifying, and sustaining.  We rely on the scriptures as our core guide - but we also interpret them with our tradition, experience, and reason.  However, despite these similarities we do not always agree.  The very way to we look at scripture leads us to differing meanings in the texts we read.

With the diversity in our members and our faith understandings, it is no wonder that we have failed on several occasions to even agree that we disagree on key issues facing the church.  But at this General Conference we are at a crossroads.  We come together at a time of great cultural and political turmoil all across the globe.  We come together at a time when we need holy conferencing more than ever before.  We come together needing to find common ground.  We come together at a time when we have to re-vision what our structure needs to look like to be more nimble and efficient in the future.

But this ground will be hard to find -- if we do not listen with open minds, love with open hearts, and fling the doors of our churches open to all.

If I had all of the answers I would offer them here.  Unfortunately these major decisions will take a lot more than one person offering their opinion.  It will take many persons on the floor of the General Conference offering opinions and listening one to the other.  It will take concessions on both ends of the spectrum.  It will require compromise.

Once a seminary professor of mine asked the class she was teaching what we thought of compromise in the church.  One student answered rather flippantly, "It is an agreement that pisses off both groups."  The prof laughed.  The class laughed.  Then the prof smiled slyly.  Then she agreed with the statement, saying, "That’s so often what it takes."

So I ask my fellow United Methodists ... are you ready to be a little bit “pissed off?”* Because I think in order for us to move forward we are going to all have to find room for flexibility about some long held beliefs and opinions.  To move forward we likely will need to embrace other options for faithful discipleship that are not in concert with our own.  To move forward we just might have to agree to disagree - which at this point would be a step forward.

So I pray.  I advocate.  I pray.  I talk to others.  I pray.  I write about my own opinions.  I pray. And I wait for my church to speak - hopefully after allowing themselves (and by extension all of us) to grow and stretch together.

And I pray that if we do get a bit “pissed off” at each other - may it be a good thing as we have listened well, loved mightily, worked through our differences, and found common ground.  God has already told us what is expected of us.

"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.

And what does the Lord require of you?

To act justly and to love mercy

and to walk humbly with your God." (Micah 6:8 NIV)

Lord, make it so.

*While some will not like the use of this language - it is vital to my story and appropriate to the feelings I have at this time.

being spiritual but not religious

I have read several blogs, articles, and research data lately about the numbers of younger adults who claim the label "spiritual but not religious." Some believe the number of persons claiming this status could be as high as 1 in 5 overall and as high as 72% of Millennials (18-29 year olds).  That is a significant number of younger adults claiming that status.

The first time I saw this data I was stunned by the honesty and audacity of naming who you are in these studies.  While it is also distressing to some degree as a minister of a mainline denominational church, I find the truth telling important.  Owning that you are not sold on how faith is expressed in the institutional church is becoming more and more common.  And denominational studies show us that the number of folks in the church is in decline.  So we need to pay attention to this information.

The truth is that sometimes I want to claim no connection to the church as well.  There are times when the church makes me feel so badly about Christianity that I want to flee.  There are too many people who feel hurt by the church to ignore that fact.  And there are too many people who see the current expression on the church as irrelevant to brush that off.

So what do we need to do?  Some say we should become more orthodox so that people know what we stand for (and by extension what and who we are against for way too many) explicitly.  Others say we should be more flexible in who we proclaim we are so that we attract many different groups.  Still others want to bring in all of the elements of modern culture to be more in tune with the very generation we are missing in our churches.  All of these ideas are short-sighted and cannot alone reverse the process of decline or the leaving of church by many younger people.

Part of the problem many churches have is that they are unsure who they are.  They are unsure who they are serving. And they are totally disconnected from the community around them. Many of our churches do not even know who the people are who live in their vicinity.  How can a church appear relevant if they sit in isolation with no clue what is happening in the homes and businesses next door and around the block?

Another problem is that many churches continue to live in the past.  They long for days gone by when they had more members or more money and they mourn that loss. Others know that “golden age” is no longer their reality but they worship, plan and live as if that was who they still were.  This kind of disconnect is dangerous and misleading to all.

A third problem is that the most public event we have as communities of faith - our worship and preaching - is too often listless, not awe inspiring and lacks passion.  Too many gather as social clubs to "do" worship without energy or enthusiasm about what we have gathered to proclaim.  Too many are going through the motions of doing church - not truly BEing the church in the world.

I have some ideas … maybe they will spark some thoughts and discussions for you as well.

So how do we begin to turn the tide?

First, we have to leave the comfort of our pews to live and work in our communities.  We have to build relationships with the people who live near our communities of faith.  We have to BE the church in communities by meeting people's needs where they live.  We have to be connected to the people around us in as many ways as possible.

Second, we have to create worship that feeds people from the feast that is our faith.  We often come to the feast starving but the food served is not something these "spiritual but not religious" folks are interested in eating.  Many are using 16th century liturgies, with 17th century building styles, and 18 or 19th century music in a 21st century world.  There is nothing wrong with tradition and for many still in the church these are important things to hand on to.  But we also need to create worship that enriches newer generations – that is relational, participatory, awe-inspiring, image driven, experiential, connective, and missional.

Third, we have to live out our faith in compassion and justice ministries.  We have to be active in making the world a better place.  Working to feed the poor by sending canned goods to a shelter without engaging those in need is good but it is also problematic.  Sending in a check for world mission is noble but it does not get our churches engaged in the world.  We have to do the work of living out our theology in public – calling for the end of injustice and working to make that happen.  It is time we live and work missionally IN the world.

Finally, we have to be open to listening to the needs of those who see the church as irrelevant and see what it is they are looking for.  That does not mean we have to give up everything to do what they want – but without the conversation we lack the option to be in that conversation. 

I do not claim to have all of the answers – but maybe what I have here are some options for a conversation that is sorely needed.

Agreeing to Disagree in the Church

In every church and/or denomination there are disagreements.  Sometimes the disagreements are about seemingly “small” things – the color of the new carpet for the sanctuary, whether to move the worship time earlier in the summer since the church does not have air conditioning, whether or not to place a memorial plague on the new baptism font, or what time the youth group should meet for pizza.  Obviously these small disagreements can also be seen as HUGE issues depending on the nature of the deciders and the emotions behind the decision needing to be made.  I have seen churches make quick work of these decisions and I have seen them become acrimonious and last for months on end.

Then there are the other more difficult decisions churches have to make.  Sometimes they are about finances – whether or not to build or to close or to add staff.  Sometimes they are about outreach – whether or not to provide a food pantry for the community or to do some other hands on ministry.  Sometimes it is about advocacy – whether or not to speak out against an injustice for those who have no voice.  Sometimes it is about pastoral ministry – whether or not to call or ordain a particular pastor or not.  Sometimes it is about theology – what we believe to be the core theological issue related to baptism or Eucharist or how we think of God.  Sometimes it is about scriptural interpretation – whether or not a particular text means one thing or another or several things at once.

In many churches today disagreements are happening on a regular basis.  Some of them are about seemingly small issues that have become big ones.  Some of them are about BIG issues that are sometimes being thought about in small ways.  Some of them are about big issues and deserve a big table to discuss them around.  No matter what the issues are they all have an impact on those involved – either directly or indirectly.

I am part of a UM Clergy group on Facebook that was created to discuss ministry issues and be a network of support for each other.  Unfortunately, it has devolved into a debating group about the issue of homosexuality and gay marriage on too many threads of conversation.  The issue deserves serious and continued discussion, but that is best done in one-on-one and in small group dialogues where people establish relationships and a level of trust so that they can hear and be heard by others in the group.  This kind of anonymous posting on a Facebook wall and then debating by belittling and demeaning others’ points of view has become tiresome and overwhelming.  There seems to be little room for disagreement without denigrating the person who holds a different perspective.  There are times when even asking a question about a post prompts a tirade.   And on occasion I have posted as well – though I think I have tried never to get personal.

There have been significant changes in how we interpret biblical passages regarding slavery, women in ministry and other passages throughout history.  I believe passages related to homosexuality should be given the same kind of intense scrutiny and interpretative perspective. 

In my tradition we hold Scripture as being primary, however we also are called on to use our own reason, experience and the tradition of the church to determine how we come to theological conclusions and often how we interpret texts.  It is called the Wesleyan Quadrilateral and it is formative to how we as Wesleyans view the reading of biblical texts and the living of our faith lives.  Wesley did not create it – Albert Outler did in his edited work on Wesley in 1964. Outler regrets the term today because it seems to make Wesleyans, and others, think of these four sources as being equal.  And for Wesley they never were.  Scripture was always primary.  But the other sources are vitally important considerations in our theological endeavors. 


The very nature of this quadrilateral means we as Wesleyans have ample opportunity to disagree.  We all read the same Scriptures but the rest of our quadrilateral informs that reading and helps us determine how we come to theological understandings.  Our tradition is varied depending on where we come from, our congregational traditions, and interpretations of our denominational tradition.  We all think differently and reason using differing levels of education, understanding and interest.  Our experiences are as varied as we are - all living unique lives of varying opportunities and possibilities.  All of this means we are bound to come to different theological positions - that allows for the full richness of our denomination.  The fact that we do not all agree is part of who we are.  I never want to lose that.  However, it has become dangerous in some circles.

For many the use of Scripture has become a stick with which to beat others on the head in an attempt to force them to agree with another’s perspective.  For many the use of Scripture has become a way to force others to live out their lives guided by someone else’s archaic understandings of biblical interpretation.  For others it is a grace-filled word of love and grace that opens us up to amazing possibilities.  For still others it is the guide for all things good and noble.  For many it is the Word of God – laid out for us in the Old and New Testaments.

I do not believe we can solve difficult issues by arguing past each other and by pressing our points of view at the expense of relationships.  I do not believe that by belittling others we win points in theological discussions.  I do not believe that the scriptures are weapons.  I do not believe that we make headway by being mean to each other.

I get frustrated with the slow nature of change.  I get tired of trying to get people to listen to other possibilities.  I get annoyed by the reality of exclusion in our churches and in my church in particular.  I disagree with the way many of these texts are used today.  I believe God calls all kinds of people and the church should be open to their gifts for ministry – all of them.  It is God's role to call folks - not mine.  It is my job to affirm those gifts and help nurture and support them.  It is my job to engage those gifts in seminary and prepare those persons for transformative ministry in the world.

You may not agree with me – but I welcome the discussion.  I welcome an open and honest discussion that uses all of our sources as interpretative tools – not just one person’s view of only way to read a text or point of view.  We can talk about carpet color or about the nature of the church or about what we believe the church is calling us to do and be.

So … let’s talk and listen to each other.